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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Grendel: "Those guys" you are referring to are Tim Geitner and Bernancke. You are correct in pointing fingers at the causes of the current economic meltdown, but your missing the boat if you believe that our government wasn't complicit in the whole deal. Unfortunately while you and I and the rest of the world were looking for a place to stick our hardon, Tim Geitner and his cronies pulled off the biggest daylight heist in the history of the planet.

Real lefties bitch about NASA spending money to go into space, while we have starving children here at home. This is but a grain of sand compared to the shift of money and consolidation of power that happened right under our noses.

If you believe, like many do, that the distribution of wealth under our tax code and form of government is better for society at large than having wealth centralized among the few, then you just got fucked by the visionary that promised you change in 2008. The transfer of money and power that Geitner and his cronies just engineered put more in the hands of fewer than any tax code Ronald Reagan or George Bush could ever dream of.

By the way, I took the politico test and could not have been more centrist. Just a hair away from the centerpoint on the graph.

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Sep 4, 2009 8:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Earl...

You have misread me if you think i'm any fan of Geitner or Bernanke. You are quite correct about their contributions to this mess, but the post I gave about the Wall St. yahoos who took advantage of their largess stands.

I am not for a Soviet style redistribution of anyone's income. I AM for sensible amounts of regulation (and how about the SEC doing its damn job???) so that the Foxes don;t get left guarding the henhouse.

p.s. Obama was never my first choice for Pres., only the lesser of the evils available.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

I guess my point is that there's something much larger at work than the petty politics us mugs haggle over.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Something bigger makes sense, but right wingers almost also limit critiques to the center -- Obama/Clinton.

The left isn't really involved in actual policy because they haven't been in power.

When people skip over 8 years of Bush/Cheney and 12 of Reagan/Bush -- well it's a "tell" that any of Hunter's outlaws can spot.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Are you a Keith Olbermann Muppet or what?

The thread goes on forever and the party never ends.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

EBP -

I graphed at .105, .21.

I guess that's the result of combining, fiscal uber-conservative, Constitutionalist, no fiat currency, End The Fed, Green, "I'd rather see a same sex couple (with all the rights afforded by 'marriag') adopt a child than abort the fetus" and I'll shoot yer ass if come into my house uninvited??????

I am not sure all of those above can coexist - but evidently they do.

Now where is my Big Chair?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Ha! I knew you and Earl would score almost identically (and I predicted it right here before either of you took the test...I are good)...hmmm, was that just obvious, or am I deserving of some small award?

Crap. Guess it was obvious...well, I think the world of both of you, so it's good to know I gravitate toward friends with similar interests...not sure how Grendel scores, but would love to find out.

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Yup. I award thee this credenza. Wear it well.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Forum Group Hug

You know, I just gotta say it, this forum, all you cretins and the ability to have these conversations is pretty freakin' cool.

You are all cordially invited to hunker down in my compound when the shit hits the fan.

Oh yeah, the music's not bad either.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

If yer breaking out the Mando-malts I'll caulk the rowboat and start making my way over.

:-)

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Group hug forum ,here ? since when ?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Well of course it's good! Har, har...

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Noise Collector on a hug group forum ??? a joke!!!

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

Well ,like they say, you know you ain't totally dead cluncked out yet ,when you can learn something new every day!

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

I'll bring the space cakes for anyone so inclined

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Poster: Earl B. Powell Date: Sep 4, 2009 10:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

You, my brother, are obviously the recipient of a security clearance to high for the likes of us around these parts. I know that smell of military intel when the words compound and "shit hits the fan" are used in the same sentence.

Nevertheless, any port in a storm and if not in Mexico, I'll be looking for that cave dwelling in the Blue Ridge.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

EBP -

I'm pretty sure I've been up front about all that stuff.

Door's still open and I don't do national ID cards or RFID implants.

Hell, I told the command corpsman to eat shit and bark at the moon when he wanted to give me a swine flu shot.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forum Group Hug

You know who is big business behind swin flu shots worldwide, mandojammer? War criminal Dick Cheney ,and his crew!And it's already known tamiflu is worthless against flu !!!

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

The Bailouts started before the Dems even took office,Granted since Obama took office it has been one clusterf*** after another . Don't think for a min that true Dems are happy w/ the current sit. This whole pile of econ crap was brought on by the previous admin, but if Obama doesn't truly change the course this country is headed to support him for another term would be ludicous.
To use a phrase coined by fellow Cavalry scouts who served w/ me in the Good ole 1st of 1st of the 1st ( 1st Sqrn 1st Calvary 1st Regiment of Dragoons We are Lima Lima Mike Foxtrot= Lost Like A M*****F******

God Bless the Dead and God Bless the Good ole Grateful Dead

Peace

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hippie -

Dude, you write some great posts, but you need to study history.

The clusterfuck (or 15 monkeys fucking a football) that is the impending economic collapse was not brought on by the Bush Administration.

It was brought on in 1913 when the Federal Reserve, the 'Creature From Jekyll Island' was signed in existence. The inevitability of the collapse was further entrenched by Bretton Woods in '46. And it was absolutely fated to occur in 1971 when the country came off the Gold Standard. The second the government signed over responsibility for managing the country's money supply total economic collapse and failure of our now fiat currency was guaranteed and etched in stone.

The problem knows no party affiliation - neither party did anything with the opportunities they had to right the ship and steer the correct course to navigate out of danger.

My country's - your country's - economy is at Flank Speed headed for an undersea mountain and we are going to hit it dead on.

The sad thing is the fucking mountain has been on the NAV charts since 1913 and WE THE PEOPLE have done nothing to demand our leaders change course.

So we are going to get what we deserve. Getcha popcorn ready because you are witness to what will likely be the single most cataclysmic world-wide event in history.

At least until Avian Flu mutates and spreads to humans via airborne pathogenic transport or an ELE asteroid hits our ass.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 9:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

No disagreement as far as the evils of the Fed and my History and dates not being my strong suit. However if memory serves me correctly at the time Clinton left office the country was looking at a 12 TRILLON dollar SURPLUS, I could see a huge tax cut at that point ,which Bush ran on and after elected was more than happy to obliged. Don't you think that would have been better spent with improvements in infastructure and healthcare than the huge corprate giveaway that occoured. Granted he sent money to the populace I think basically as a thank you for allowing him to steal the election. I received a whopping check for 20 dollars Thats no joke for real and as the other so called stimulas that occoured did nothing for me.Most of that was sucked up by 4.50 a gallon in gas (where is that now by the way) The fact that the right despise regulation so much makes me suspicious of their intent.
The meltdown occourred almost a year to the day today I know it all to well I'm still among the ranks of the unemployed. I knew electing Obama was not going to stop this freefall those who did have more hippie hopefullness than I, But electing Obama did prove the center and Left to be a force to fear. No more are the days when far right can cow us into electing individuals who use fear to guide this "free land"
The question is no longer what went wrong its who can fix it. My beleif is its broken beyond repair and I've got the popcorn ready for when it all goes down.

"...We'll be fighting in the street with our chilren at our feet and the morals that they worship will be gone..."
Pete Townshend

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hippie -

Your memory does not serve you correctly. Clinton claimed a $123 billion BUDGET surplus. But there was still an $18 TRILLION government debt.

You can have a budget surplus/deficit while you have a national debt.

Advertising and touting the positive of a budget surplus that is a fraction of the INTEREST on the National debt alone is like spraying perfume on a pile of steaming dog shit.

It still stinks.

Google Clinton surplus - there are many articles from both sides that use a whole lot of words to basically say the same thing. We had a budget surplus, but did nothing to reduce the national debt.

It's the $82 TRILLION dollar debt (including unobligated programs Social Security and MEDICARE) that is going to break the country's back.

We can't even make the interest payment on that debt load - the ugly truth is the country is insolvent and the nanosecond China stops purchasing our T Bills and our debt, the good ole USA goes bankrupt overnight. We will wake up the next day and the dollar will no longer be the World's reserve currency and will be worth zero.

The good news is, since no meaning ful change can occur without significant shock to a system, the looming collapse will mandate that we come up with a new system.

End the Fed, put money control back into the hands of Congress where the Constitution says that authority shall rest, back it with a for real, no-shit commodity like gold or silver, allow barter and free market rules to establish themselves and we are all better off.

Anyone bringing barley, copper coil and peat bog bricks to the compound gets head of the line privileges.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Progress has a price

Hey Mando--not my strong suit, but the only point of contention I would have with some of this (though by and large in agreement), is with the various means by which folks calculate "debt" these days (eg, when "trade" aspects are considered, etc.). It's a figure that can vary dramatically depending on one's assumptions.

But, something yet to be raised, and IMHO, the one issue that in some respects is the root "cause" of much of this is the simple dynamic of "standard of living" (ie, "ours") and the "decline of imperialism" (the "West") over the past century. Point being, with resouces acting as they do, and advancements in all measures of "standard of living" rising as they did (again, for us), in the absence of exploitation of the rest of the World's resources (including "labor"), we simply are being faced with the very real prospect of "paying the bill" for the free ride (no knock on the free market individualistic champions that took great risks in "mining" those resources in the early 1900s and so on). One can argue it is untenable to maintain the standard of living we do without the consequence of "have nots" (ie, Third World), given finite World resources, and population growth. The consequences of our advancements in resource use, and the contradictory "humanist" inclinations of many, including the "right" at times (ie, that all children deserve an education, that all illnesses should be cured, that war is bad, etc., etc., etc.) means we have to re-evalute how our own excesses are to be supported under the notion of everyone having a place in the Sun.

One can always hope for a technological "fix" as so often happened in the past, but otherwise, it's a major problem.

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Poster: skies Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Progress has a price

at first look the idea of everyone having a place in the sun seems ok but on second looks ,quality of life become so degraded when too many people are already packer for a place in the sun,is it really a favor to force people to exist in such degraded situations ?

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Thanx for the ecommics refresher, both sides of the political alignment are guilty of doublespeak.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Sep 4, 2009 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

Sorry hippie64, you only speak for yourself.

Many people know that Clinton didn't erase the national debt! But that article on 'The Myth of the Clinton Surplus' was decent.

Clinton never had the promise that Obama did, which was made worse by Clinton's own personal failure to avoid being drawn into a scandal by a low ranking agent in a stained dress.

What clever long range thinking went into that tactic!

The Demos had some good tricks in the 2006 elections with nicely timed exposure of Republican hypocrisy, but they just don't seem to have the will to claim ketchup as a vegetable.

Or maybe they don't want to have to apologize for Cheney shooting them in the face, kinda like Tom Ridge and Gonzalez lately -- or maybe they want to avoid a repeat of the domestic terrorist US Army-sourced anthrax attack on Congress and the Media as in 2001's discussion of the aptly named "Patriot" Act.

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 5:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

To much cold barley soup clouds my thinking corrections Coulter Right of center, not left and Carlson not doorman on Rhoda that would CarlTON as far as his politic I don't know but Tucker Carlson Right of center My appolgies to the forum and CarlTon the doorman

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Poster: hippie64 Date: Sep 4, 2009 4:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

First of all I try never to speak for anybody but myself, To make sure of that point I went back and reread this thread and only found one instance where I generalized "true Dems"but that was only to say by looking at Obamas falling poll numbers that dems are mostly in agreement that by failing on campaign promises is a sure fired way of having your ass replaced.
I realize that this may be one of those well placed baits that I have spoken of in a previous post but what the hell I'll bite.
I politely left the the thread thanking Mando for his economics lesson and intended to leave it at that and get back to this Main Ten but you know I'll finish my thought now.
I can goggle and Wiki all day and come up w/ conflicting explanations for just about anything, The Treasury graph I seen says Clinton paid down the natioal Debt in 98 and 99 is mine right and theirs wrong, couldn't venture a guess as far as the evils of the right left Bush, clinton, gore , Cheney, Gietner.Greenspan,Coulter, Carlson (Tucker not the doorman remember the show Rhoda) O'Reilly Hannity Limbaugh and any other pundit you care to name let your consceince be your guide.
Can we survive when the shit truly does rain down my guess is some will most wont to the truly blessed it wont matter.
I always thought of Ketchup as a condiment I know of no vegtabe that contians spices and distilled vinegar.
As you have all probaly gathered I'm a simple guy w/ a love for music and humanity that knows no boundries. Flawed you bet ya but I stand by my comments that Coulter Not left of center,Tucker carlson not left of center Bush= war criminal. Obama= poor Sob who means well but still not savy e3nough to counter the cabals already posistioned to drive the middle class into the streets like a starving third world country
I would love to see Cheney prosecuted as well Gonzales and the rest of them even Colin Powell who lied then came around during the 08 election to clear his consciece'
If you thought I was speaking for you or the Deadhead nation as a whole my appologies but nothing could be further from the truth

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Sep 4, 2009 11:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Right-wing / conservative / traditionalist Deadheads

hippie -

The site is right leaning but the article is accurate. Great explanation of public debt and intergovernmental debt.

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

This post was modified by Mandojammer on 2009-09-04 18:21:40